Bending Changing frostbreath

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by SpookyArea, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. SpookyArea

    SpookyArea New Member

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    What is your suggestion?
    I suggest that frostbreath would be changed, my idea was that when you freeze one entity, the ability would automatically cancel, and the freeze duration would last about 2-3 seconds.

    frostbreath currently only helps with avoiding fall dmg and it gives enemies slowness, which isn't very helpful.

    Also make it melt able by phasechange and heatcontrol.


    Why do we need this? or What made you post this suggestion?

    I think frostbreath is currently useless, applying slowness to the opponent won't save a fight, most of the time....


    What are the possible negative aspects of your suggestion?
    I see no negative aspects since many people aren't happy with the change

    What are the positive aspects of your suggestion?
    Like i said, it is useless and people aren't using it, so changing it would make people use the ability again.

    How can this suggestions be achieved on the server?
    Changing frostbreath
     
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  2. PhanaticD

    PhanaticD Owner Staff Member

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  3. Apheri

    Apheri Active Member

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    No. Make a poll right now and set it to public, show me the "many people" who aren't happy with this and I will be more than happy to breathe on them until they outlast their relatives from the cryopod i've forced upon frozen non-blood-circulating brains. I've already vented my disgust in the discord, so i'm just going to restate what I said there with a bit more class.

    Pre-fix frostbreath:
    • Insta-use impossible to dodge for most elements immobilize.
    • Creates water sources that can also negate your fall damage
    • Slows the target to the point where they basically can't move
    • Sets up your other moves, as your target can no longer dodge your freeze chain.
    Post-fix frostbreath:
    • Insta-use impossible to dodge for most elements immobilize.
    • Creates water sources that can also negate your fall damage
    • Slows the target to the point where they basically can't move
    • Sets up your other moves, as your target can no longer dodge your freeze chain.

    This move was not used by most players because it was cheap and way too easy to use for how much stupidity it enabled by someone capable. In its current state, now it accomplishes the same things as it did before, but with the key element of: "Now you have counterplay and can actually fight back instead of accepting your fate and waiting until they kill you".

    Pre-fix frostbreath ice is considered "real ice" as opposed to the ice that most other ice moves are balanced around. It allowed for the use of icewall, a move that is coded with the intention not to work on freeze moves. If one tried to "dig out" of this ice, a water block would appear in their face, thereby disabling bending by virtue of it for all intents and purposes not being possible to bend in a 1x1x1 block of water, this water would also not allow you to mine the other ice blocks as it slows down your digging speed.

    BUT

    Even if the ice was replaced with the "Fake" ice to prevent abuse such as frostbreath icewall, the thickness of the ice allows for all water moves to permeate the ice regardless. Watergimbal goes through, every ability from waterarms goes through, torrent goes through, icewave goes through, you are immobilized while your opponent can damage you.

    Compare this move to the actual move: immobilize. Damagewise, a waterbender has fairly similar damage to a chiblocker wacking a target (very loosely). Immobilize is a 4-move combo which is (comparatively) difficult to land. Frostbreath is a single move, which is ranged, and if you miss you just keep holding shift and it gets them anyway. If you graze them with the first second of frostbreath, the slowness makes them unable to dodge the second freeze.

    Oh yeah also it suffocates hardcore, because, why not.

    With regards to your suggestions on how to balance the move.
    • Limiting the freeze to one target is laughable, it is only used on single targets to begin with. Not a nerf.
    • 2-3 second freeze duration is more than enough time to begin a chain freeze and icewall
    • "It's useless without the freeze", It has a very generously sized niche, and it has not even been a day since the changes were made. I would not be surprised if now that it is socially acceptable to use frostbreath, it would get nerfed more people would actually be using it again without hating themselves.
    • Fuck it, even IF IT WAS useless, water is a powerhouse of an element without frostbreath, and if this move suddenly stopped existing, nothing would change. There are many replacements - and those replacements also aren't used by most people for the same reasons that frostbreath wasn't - looking at surge freeze here.
    At the very least, give better reasons for why it's useless, or why water needs a buff. Anyone can say "well other people...". Instead of pulling fake opinions out of your ass, give reasons, engage in dialogue, converse back and forth, argue, debate, but back it up with actual points. I just got a pizza before I started writing this and now it's room temperature.


    Most people won't even read my full paragraph, but at least the minuscule 10 minutes of effort i put in to pointing out how obviously dumb this suggestion is speaks more volumes than "Like i said, it is useless and people aren't using it". Have a nice day.

    tldr; fuck off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
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  4. LeMinimalist

    LeMinimalist Member

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    the suggestion seems cool. the main prob with frost breath imo is that it continues to freeze the person as long as the person is still being frost breathed making digging out annoying / buggy. cancelling the ability when a person is frozen by frost breath would mini stun the person allowing them to just need to break the top ice block and jump out.
     
  5. Yojoo

    Yojoo Member

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    So long as it can be broken by heat control
     
  6. Apheri

    Apheri Active Member

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    n-no. why.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
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  7. Yojoo

    Yojoo Member

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    Once the person has stopped shifting and you're in ice, you should be able to heat control out. That's the whole point of it.
     
  8. Shookified

    Shookified Moderator Staff Member

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    I like the idea of it only being able to freeze one entity each use, that seems way less op and will balance things out. The current “Frostbreath”, I use quotations because it slows people, doesn’t even freeze people at all from the looks of it. Might as well rename it slowbreath. I haven’t even been able to use the new version of it and I can already tell I hate it. It doesn’t even freeze people?? That’s literally what it did in the show! It makes no sense the way it is right now. I think changing it back to the way it was before but only being able to freeze one entity each use is completely fair and actually an amazing suggestion.

    Changing Frostbreath to freeze one person isn’t “laughable” it’s realistic. before Frostbreath could freeze like 10 people coming at you all within its single use, which I agree is op. But this is just taking it too far, the entire point of the move is to freeze people water doesn’t have the ability to slow people down that seems like something chi would do.

    Might I also mention water has the least moves of all the elements.
     
  9. SoVeryViolin

    SoVeryViolin Member

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    It’s like you didn’t read anything Apheri talked about
     
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  10. Apheri

    Apheri Active Member

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    Really grasping at straws when someone's argument is "but water has less moves".

    Jokes aside, so far both of your arguments have been "change it to freeze only one person". I wrote my entire spiel earlier only taking the move into consideration for 1 person. Nowhere did I ever say that it was strong because it could freeze multiple people, so hearing "well change it to only affect one person" to me, translates to "lets keep it the same and pretend we nerfed it".

    "People demanding fireblast nerfs? Lets remove its ability to light furnaces without needing fuel. That will definitely be enough of a nerf!"
     
  11. Shookified

    Shookified Moderator Staff Member

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    who said my argument was that water has the least moves? If you know how to read I put it at the end of the two paragraphs.

    How is making it freeze one person instead of infinite keeping it the same?? LMAO?? You so clearly just hate this move and are doing anything to get rid of it at this point.

    that final paragraph you said about fireblast makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and has nothing to do with anything

    this nerf to Frostbreath should have never happened without a proper vote, and this isn’t even a nerf it’s a complete change in the moves design that has nothing to do with water at all
     
  12. SoVeryViolin

    SoVeryViolin Member

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    The problem with frostbreath was the experience it gave to the person who got trapped in the ice NOT how many people it could trap. Not being able to do anything while trapped in the ice was the problem (Not to mention how gross it was when combined with other elements and spirit).

    Most waterbenders don't even use frostbreath in their kit, it's often replaced by better moves. I don't appreciate the bs "waterbenders shouldnt have to deal with a nerf like this" when the majority of people upset about the change are people who abuse it in combos with other elements :)
     
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  13. Pride

    Pride Member

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    sorry but im gonna have to disagree with a few points youre trying to make here

    firstly,
    thats not the point..the point was that the ice was the problem. both violin and aph explained why ^^

    and as for this,
    frostbreath was nothing like the show to begin with. in bending, you can literally just freeze someone in an instant; it's practically a beam ability because of the way it acts. in the show, waterbenders need to take a deep enough of a breath depending on how much they want to "freeze". even then, the amount of ice produced is negligible if youre not near a significant water source
    frostbreath needed a total change in general because the way it acted before showed just how flawed certain block generating moves are in minecraft
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  14. LeMinimalist

    LeMinimalist Member

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    hm another suggestion would be to make it tick based. e.g if your hit by frost breath for 2 seconds or so u get frozen
     
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  15. Apheri

    Apheri Active Member

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    Now this is a realistic solution that I can get behind. I still like icebreath as is and have yet to see any polls, but implementing something like increasing slowness level depending on how long you are hit by the move, later resulting in the ice/freeze after a few seconds would be fun to consider.
     
  16. Apheri

    Apheri Active Member

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    OH! pardon me, i had not realized that you just mentioned it for shits and giggles with no intention to have it contribute to the discussion.
    I truly should have known, since I had done exactly the same with my firebreath comment - definitely not satire meant to ridicule how your "nerf" suggestions have nothing to do with what made the move strong in the first place.
    I - thankfully - haven't had the move used on me in months, the times I encounter it are when a clearly-outmatched waterbender binds it to completely 180 a fair water v water - leaving the icebreather unhappy with the win, and the icebreathee disgusted, not wanting to resort to binding it themselves.

    You have no facts or solid points to suddenly pull a last-resort "bias" card out of your ass.
    My sincerest apologies! Woe is me, I'm just terribly biased and don't know how to read...
     
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  17. ThisIsOllie

    ThisIsOllie Member

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    Please don't get bothered too much about people their opinions please. They just get pissed off too quickly just by one simple suggestion. I think this suggestion is good and should be implemented into the server. As Shookified added an ’Agree’ reaction to your suggestion, so will I!
     

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