Minigames OP kits issue for new players

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Persona44, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Persona44

    Persona44 New Member

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    This will be a bit lengthy so don't comment "tl;dr" or "tl;tr" as it doesn't add anything to this conversation, please read this post before you comment on it.

    Addressing an issue that has come up a few times but ignored quite a bit it is the issue of the large advantage donators have against new members particularly on Skyflag, the most often played map. Of course donators will have an advantage over players who have not donated to the server given the kit the rank is assigned to. I would like to primarily focus on the kit you get with Legend+. I highly suggest that a buff be made for new players. I believe members should be given a sharpness 1 enchantment on their sword as 6 attack damage seems way to little to be fighting against people with L+, which is a kit that gives a diamond chestplate and a Sharpness II, Knockback I diamond sword that does 9.5 attack damage. It can be difficult for new players to fight FFA L+'s who spawncamp with basic gear. Sure the iron armor has protection 1 but that doesn't do that much. I'm not wanting the game to be 100% balanced but I just think that new players should be given a slightly higher advantage than they already have. Sure players can try to knock off others but are unable to if they aren't that great at pvp. Not saying all members aren't good at pvp. Just statistically, (from what I have seen the many times I've played minigames over these two months) the majority of new players' skill can't make up for the disadvantage to damage and armor.

    Why do we need this? or What made you post this suggestion?
    This would be a great addition to minigames and would give the gamemode more players, as countless times new players would join, get spawncamped by an L+ player(s) and then ragequit after getting killed over and over again or just get bored from sitting in their spawn. An argument I've seen about putting sharpness 1 on a member's sword is that one can just go enchant at an enchantment table since there is one at mid, and 1 at each of the spawns for red team and blue team. Good in theory but doesn't work if you are being spawncamped, you have no way of getting levels and then enchanting when you have someone right up on you killing you over and over again forcing you to either come out to die or just stand their wasting your time. I'm not against spawncamping, and admittedly I do it myself. I don't use my kit to give members a bit more of an advantage, not saying you shouldn't use your kit because you did indeed buy it. I wanted to make a thorough post about this since I've briefly talked about this in-game but was told not to and move to forums, so I am.

    A possible negative to this would be members fighting against Hero and such ranks before it that give a Sharpness diamond sword with only a 2.5 attack damage difference and 0.25 critical damage difference on the diamond sword. In my opinion it won't make a huge difference as 2.5 is still a good gap and won't make a huge difference in combat between the two.

    What are the positive aspects of your suggestion?
    The main positive aspect of this suggestion is the new players. This gamemode is dying fast and some players are flat out quitting after years of being on. With more of an advantage, less new players will be ragequitting and will find this minigame fun and not boringly one-sided. With more players on minigames, there will undoubtedly be more players on other gamemodes such as bending, creative, survival, factions, etc. I'm quite new to the server but I don't think my opinions and suggestions should be discredited because of it. The reason I got a rank on the server was so I could actually have a proper chance against good pvpers in Legend+ ranks who use their kit to spawncamp and the like. This is a great gamemode and I have fun playing it, frankly it's the only gamemode on PhanaticMC that I play because of how much I like it. With more players the community can grow further and so can the features of this particular gamemode.


    How can this suggestions be achieved on the server?
    Like stated above, this can be easily implemented by enchanting the non-donator swords with Sharpness 1 and make it the official kit.

    End-post note:
    I'd love to see this implemented onto the server and I hope that PhanaticD will have a chance to read this through.


     
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  2. SurrealDestroyer

    SurrealDestroyer New Member

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    I completely agree with you. While it is fine to buy a kit to give you a better chance, people who don’t pay shouldn’t have a disadvantage. Some people on the server are kids and may not have access to money. I know the server has to make money, and the server has to make money through players donating (and maybe the owner and/or admins income). New players getting camped by someone with a kit much higher than theirs can cause them to get mad and go do something else or play on another server.
     
  3. Gerald

    Gerald Member

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    Eh I am god so I might be a bit bias but I disagree I have seen people team up against higher ranked players which inturn kills them or yknow to be rude "Get better at the game"
     
  4. Gerald

    Gerald Member

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    I also disagree here, not all Legend+ spawncamp and they come back later its not like rage quitting is a huge issue and the other gamemodes already have more players except for maybe creative,survival and factions
     
  5. GokyTheFurry

    GokyTheFurry Active Member

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    If you buy a rank you should be rewarded. People with no ranks can kill people with Legend+ regardless if they use enchants well and just are more skilled. Also you're making a lot of assumptions on how people play the game. -1
     
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  6. THEbobtardle

    THEbobtardle Active Member

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    donator kits are too op lol members should get a SMALL buff +1
     
  7. Elec

    Elec Well-Known Member

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    +1 we really are too op, they need a little buff for sure
    besides, I like challenges ;)

    Question though; if their sword is already enchanted what will be the use of ench tables anymore?

    Edit: I forgot about bows and armour sorry
     
  8. Lord_Of_Llamaz

    Lord_Of_Llamaz Active Member

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    Though rank kits are too op maybe instead of just debuffing, why not make it so somehow members could earn better kits without having to spend money for a rank? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  9. Ace15dx

    Ace15dx Active Member

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    I like this idea better, either total play time or total kills be used to earn kits
     
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  10. essa_

    essa_ Active Member

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    I don't do this so I could be wrong, but if people vote a lot and they make it onto the list of top voters, they can get in-game credits, right? And they can buy ranks with those credits.
     
  11. Persona44

    Persona44 New Member

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    Sorry I should have looked back at what I wrote before publishing this, I didn't mean that every donator Legend+ spawncamps because they don't, I'm just saying there are indeed quite a few who spawncamp with their kit and new players can't really do much about it. Ragequitting players can be an issue as minigames is almost desolate until 4 or so people start playing then the game usually caps out at 10 players at most and just sometimes getting past that, it's not completely dead but I just want to see more players on. You also mentioned players teaming up against donators and such repeatedly killing new players. I can agree that it happens, but usually there aren't enough members/guests on who really care, since most of them are teamed with eachother. I know this is a sloppy post so I hope this makes sense.
     
  12. FernandoPaola

    FernandoPaola New Member

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    +1 I'm going to wait and see the people who negative this post. Pushing off legends isn't easy if you get pushed first by a kb sword ;p
     
  13. Lord_Of_Llamaz

    Lord_Of_Llamaz Active Member

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    Yeah you can
     
  14. Bucktooth1337

    Bucktooth1337 Member

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    Persona i completely agree with you but, the likelyhood phanaticD would try balance the non donars to donars is extremely low. Ill explain

    This distinction between donars and non donors will always be present because it gives players a competitive advantage. The rank system in minigames is a really effective way of gaining profit. If you want the highest potential of a competitive advantage, you need the legend rank. It pretty much nullifies the kits before it i.e the hero and elite. Therfore people are in a position where the only way to level the playing field is to buy a legends rank.(considering the percentage of doners to non donors is crazy high, you can verify by joining minigames)

    See i disagree with this. Its literally a plague in the mincraft community and even mojang have tried to put an end to this problem but failed. At the end of the day its like a business, the main goal is to gain profit and if this pay2win method is the most effective, i wouldn't be surprised if servers have implemented it.

    The voters system is great and all but thats just a way to distract people from the actual problem, the business model. At the end of the day phanaticD you got to ask yourself if this model will work longterm and is it really worth to create a dysfunctional minigames community for a bit of profit.

    Although this, tinkering the legends kit can have a huge impact on how games will play out i.e getting rid of knockback swords since we are playing in the sky
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  15. essa_

    essa_ Active Member

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    That's what I thought as well. Improving the normal kit would make people less likely to buy ranks and I don't think phan would find this issue prominent enough to change it, since it would probably mean less profit overall.
    I'm not gonna hold it against phan tho because idk if the server is a full or part time job or something, but a guy's gotta make money somehow. And, in a way, I think the server would be considered a business anyway, and that's just how businesses run. So whatever.
    Maybe there should be, like, a mystery box kind of thing, where every player gets to open one chest a day and there can be small rewards like vexp, keys, or an upgraded kit for one day? I'm not a programmer or something (idk) so I wouldn't know if something like that could be implemented, but I think more people would want to come onto minigames if there was a little reward every time, especially if they want to get the rank upgrade, then they may keep logging on day after day to get it.
    Just a thought, idk.
     
  16. Migsy

    Migsy Well-Known Member

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    It was worse back then, Legends have Sharpness III, Knockback II, However it was nerfed years ago due to players' complaints. But i do agree with you. Non-donors needs a little push.
     
  17. Persona44

    Persona44 New Member

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    I feel like I kind of half assed my post in the sense I strayed further from my original point, I totally get your idea and agree, I don't necessarily want a nerf on this kits, just a small buff for non-paying members. A way that I read in the comments to achieve this instead of me adding to my original post was to make it a reward for hours played or voting. I think it would make sense to get the buff once you became a member on PhanaticMC website and voted 10 times, basically getting the green name to show you are a member, not a guest. I completely support the KB nerf for Legend kit but I wasn't really trying to add the suggestion of getting rid of it as there has been a larger, previous thread discussing it and I felt no need to add it in because it wasn't really a main part of my point. Not saying it wasn't significant because it's still a ridiculous advantage against new players.
     
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  18. BOOMER_1

    BOOMER_1 Member

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    -1. get better at the game and you'll win.
     
  19. Kazeroni

    Kazeroni Member

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    -1 every rank gets a kit but of course everyone below legend rank will complain about it. People who are really good at pvp don't call the kit unfair because they can kill people who do have kits. You don't need money to buy a rank. Just win topads or top votes and earn store credit and save up for a rank. If they're too lazy to do that then they shouldn't complain? Giving members free perks will just make them not want to buy anything to support the server, many people on sky flag have bought ranks due to the fact they wanted a kit. Even with the addition of a better member kit there's no doubt 80% of them will still complain.
     
  20. Bucktooth1337

    Bucktooth1337 Member

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    Regardless if they can kill them or not the concept still persists. What ur ur doing is completely ignoring what the majority are saying. Not everyone is good enough to win a battle against someone who has speed, knockback swords with dia chestplates. Its pretty much objectively unfair.

    Read my reply about the voting system and how it doesn't tackle to root problem

    Who says its mandatory to buy something to support the server and why should they be penalized if the don't? Them being on the server in itself is a way of supporting it.

    To tackle ur last point, what was the reason of putting a pullback restriction on the bows? People are still calling out bowspam but the issue is less problematic since now theres a restriction. Same thing with bumping the members kit for e.g. people are still going to complain but it still attempts to level the playing field and the issue will be less severe

    You have to look at this through the lense of a non donor. maybe u should use a default kit once in your life to understand why this issue is being brought up
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

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